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Dawkins' Book Alongside Bible in Hotels?You've retreated into the solitude of your hotel room after a tiring day of travel and business. More pensive than usual on this occasion, the weightier matters of life come to mind. Instead of reaching for the remote, using your cell phone, or going online, you open the top drawer of the bedside nightstand. Imagine your surprise to find Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion next to the Gideon Bible? Well, at least one person has suggested the dual offering. If atheism is the antidote for all the world's religiously borne ills, why not place a book of cures in the hands of as many people as possible? And the privacy of a hotel room away from home might be just-right for reflection on the heavy stuff. The Gideons International has distributed free Bibles for over 100 years. According to their website, they have placed or distributed more than 1.3 billion copies of the Scriptures in over 180 countries, and "Nowhere is the impact of sharing God’s Word more clearly illustrated than in the testimonies of changed lives that we receive almost daily." Videos on the site speak of newfound hope, freedom from drug addiction, and even averted suicides. What would result from an—admittedly monumental—effort to emulate the Gideons' output? Maybe The God Delusion is not the best text for promoting the preeminence of atheism, but assuming there is such a tome, how would it impact readers? Can it be measured over time? Can it be tested by placing only Bibles in some hotels and a Dawkins/Dennett/Harris/Hitchens/Stenger book in others, and then switching off? The larger question of Is-atheism-or-Christianity-better-for-the-world? looms, but for purposes of this post, let's assume we can pull off the Gideons/Dawkins test. What do you think the results would show? |
Comments
All religious debates aside
All religious debates aside (which I could go on about for pages) hotels would probably accept the books if they were given to them for free because if they refused it would be bad publicity. Hotels don't have religious beliefs, they only believe in business.
I believe that Dawkins' book, which I haven't read/do not care to read but have heard plenty about, serves no real constructive purpose. Instead of trying to explain natural phenomena and universal mysteries with scientific theories in an organized and professional manner, its main goal is to tear apart some other idea that the author happens to despise. If someone doesn't believe in ghosts or aliens, they don't go out and buy a textbook that mocks and insults the two, instead they go on with their life unconcerned with the matter. The same applies with Dawkins' book, regardless of what you believe in it is just a flat out tasteless book.
Unfortunately, like I said before, most hotels would accept the book if it was given to them for free because it would be bad for business to take preference over some beliefs.
Also, just like "The God Delusion" and its purely malicious purposes, there's only one reason an atheist like John would find his way to this site and this discussion: to stir up trouble by making assumptions and pretending they are smarter than the believers without an argument other than "well, you all are just uneducated". Seems to me like it sure does take a lot of "faith" and effort to be an atheist.
Perhaps you haven’t yet
Perhaps you haven’t yet sensed the change in American thinking. Capitalism, or private capital and individual initiative, which previously defined our culture, now appears to be defined as unfair. Deciding what’s fair is evolving as a function of government. Under the current political climate I don’t blame business fear of repercussions, in looking at the direction we appear to be heading their fears appear justified.
I've heard the rumors that
I've heard the rumors that hotels are going to shut Gideons out from distributing God's Word because some guests have complained that they see only one side (maybe two if you're staying at a Marriott property) of the spiritual discussion. Which I could understand if other faiths were being prevented from distributing their holy books. But when was the last time you heard of a group of Budhists or Muslims or Atheists taking their time and money to place their literature in hotels, hospitals, prisons, etc.?
If atheists place The God
If atheists place The God Delusion in hotels, why shouldn't theists place The Dawkins Delusion next to it? Richard side by side with Alister. And speaking of Tolkien, I can just hear Dawkins and McGrath sighing to each other the words of Aragorn's dear old Mum: onen i-Estel edain, u-chebin estel anim. "I give hope to the men of the West; I keep no hope for myself." How poignant.
If I sound jaded, it's because I believe it's time for an all out war with the inane neo-Darwinists. It's time to flood the streets, hotels and motels, schools and libraries, parks and panels, zoos and yahoos with profound irrefutable evidence of irreducible complexity, nanomachines in the cell, causal-agent informational code in the DNA, and you-name-it.
Let's stop fighting this battle with paper airplanes and begin ending it once and for all with hydrogen-bomb-level proof. Drown them in it. The time for pro-active radicalism has come. Down with Darwin. Up with God. Down with atheism. Up with the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Creator of the universe. Praise Him forever!
Oh and Lord of the Rings was
Oh and Lord of the Rings was great fun. Read the entire collection three times in high school. Try C. S. Lewis some time if you haven't already. Tolkien's devout faith was a significant factor in the conversion of C. S. Lewis from atheism to Christianity.
I found a a Zen Buddhist
I found a a Zen Buddhist book next to the Bible when I stayed at the Argonaut in San Franciso. It was great. I had been looking for one of those. I referenced it in my refutation of Buddhism as a logical belief system along with my apologetics materials of course. Still have it and didn't have to pay a dime for it either.
Do people ever read the
Do people ever read the Bibles in hotels? I think not. They watch cable TV or even porn channels if available. As for Atheism being boring I find it endlessly interesting and I have been Atheist for most of my life. If I want to read myths I prefer the Lord of the Rings.
I would agree that
I would agree that Christians shouldn’t feel offended by this book, but in making that statement I hope you are not implying we are? That would be a conclusion drawn from the stereotypical perspective that Christianity cannot stand up against reason and logic, as was implied by Mr. Loftus.
I also don’t agree with your assumption that having both these books necessarily makes it “fair”. It seems to me you are assuming these books fairly present two different sides to a religious argument. I don’t even think that’s the intent of the Bible. As someone else pointed out the Bible is a collection of stories, traditions and values which can be tested and from which people draw religious conclusions. I doubt those drawing the religious conclusions think they are being “fairly” represented.
I don't see any problem with
I don't see any problem with it. Its just a book, if Christians feel offended about it, well they could throw the thing under the sofa and quietly read the bible.
I for one would like to see both arguments, since it would be fairer and more equal.
Besides, he whose faith is strong does not shun others, but embraces them, so that he may strengthen his own, through understanding and not blissful ignorance.
John W. Loftus comments are
John W. Loftus comments are like most atheists. They begin by making the assumption that they are the only educated people in the world when they use comments like, "the uneducated person of faith" and "most Christians haven’t even read the Bible", and "people who have not thought seriously about the faith of their upbringing". He even ends with a smirk-style smiley face. The atheist who uses these techniques in attempts to win converts will only succeed in winning those who feel more inferior than they, because their premise that they are smarter, more educated, and more read than everyone else is both sanctimonious and false; and their arguments are typically poor both logically and scientifically. Ironically, they fail to realize that their assumptions of the universe and life require far more faith than "people who have not thought seriously about the faith of their upbringing".
The irony is that Dawkins,
The irony is that Dawkins, et al, have popularized sanctimonious atheism, perhaps, nature's oddest duck. Their writings are as they sound - opinion pieces - and suffer from the fact that they sound that way. Suppose that I reclused myself in some tropical rain forest and while I was there, there arose a debate about my existence, whether I was a real or a fictional person. Would it matter to me as I ate my jungle fare if the fictionalists won the debate? Could they will me out of existence? If they demanded that I show myself to them to prove my existence, would I be under any moral, intellectual or social responsibility to leave my new home and come to the place of their choosing to make an accounting of myself?
That is why the Bible is a book of testimony, not a book of opinions, contrary to the atheist's imagination - "That which we have seen with our eyes..." No event is at the mercy of the opinion of its detractors. It is what it is. The reason that Christians are sometimes rattled by the atheist and the agnostic is that we, too, are often too much enthralled by our personal opinions.
Leaving the choice to the
Leaving the choice to the hotel sounds fair to me, and, I think, within the spirit of our law, but what if our courts become involved?
I can see another possibility in the way the law, and “fairness” may be defined. What if the court dictates that the consumer must have access to all the choices? The irony of courts interpreting the law in that fashion is the consumer often loses all choice. Rather than face that legal controversy the hotel would likely decide no book will be made available.
THE POINT MAY BE MOOT: As
THE POINT MAY BE MOOT:
As the law allows for certain freedoms here and in various countries, we must consider that it may involve legal issues as well as the position on the issue that any number of hotel chains may take as they would be directly involved. If, in this case, atheists intend to pay and place books in hotel rooms it would certainly seem to be up to these establishments to evaluate any possible negative responses or backlash by their "religious" guests in turn affecting their bottom lines for placing these books in their hotel locations. Meaning, the hotel would have the choice to opt out or not.
The point may be moot because if, in fact, atheists would be allowed to place their publications along side the Gideon’s then all organizations should get the same treatment....Islam, Hindu, Pantheists, Scientology, etc. This would potentially create an entire spiritual/philosophical library in one night stand. We would essentially be staying in libraries with room service.
Besides, we would be able to see the tangible results of placing these books along side Bibles based on the increase of the postings for the "God Delusion" on Ebay.
-BAS
The Word of GOD gives the
The Word of GOD gives the person a gift of eternal life, if accepted, however, atheism gives no hope whatsoever. The final decision is up to the individual. Romans 6:23
" If you know who I am then
" If you know who I am then there is another wave of atheists coming on his heels which will not be as easily dealt with."
John
Why should we know who you are? With all due respect, are you trying to make a name for yourself?
Also, I perused your web page and found nothing of real interest in terms of making a concrete point against Christianity. The best you can do is to point out the sin. We would point that out as well as a sure sign that someone is missing the entire point of what God's ultimate will is for true believers, which is to be set free from sin.
If you could put it in all in a nutshell, that would be it. When men were brought into the presence of the Lord, they weren't overcome by love. They were overcome by fear because of His perfection and holiness. Jesus' atonement pardons our sin and His Spirit transforms us on the inside through His Word by grace through faith.
When you begin coming at the Bible recognizing just how much God hates sin (which, btw, is the opposite of love) and realizing the solution that He did on His own, which was a priceless gift of love, the text falls into place. The contradictions fall by the wayside.
Vera
Most people do not consider
Most people do not consider the value of their life from our Creator's perspective. Fewer still, actually attempt any intellectual analysis of the Bible from a scientific perspective. If there is a shred of empirical evidence in Dawkins' book, would someone point it out? The Bible is full of stories, names, places...., that can be proven empirically through a variety of scientific disciplines. Prophetic evidence is icing on the cake, and maybe the most compelling of all. I will concede that those who believe that our lives are the result of random undirected processes existing in a cosmos created in essentially the same way, have infinitely more faith than I have. For me, the evidence is important. Our Creator expects us to diligently use our individual God-given gifts. Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
Well, you all have very good
Well, you all have very good comments. I especially liked Jane's practical comment of where would the money come from. The Gideons have a lot of support of many churches across the globe. Does anyone know if the atheists have that kind of support? Considering how few atheists there are, I would doubt it.
I have read Dawkins' God Delusion and I would not recommend it for "light reading before going to bed" -- especially while traveling. It tends to have a very hateful tone to it. It's full of unsubstantiated flippant remarks which seem to be meant for people who already agree with his point of view. I am a Christian, so I am biased against his point of view; but I was expecting a more logical and evenhanded approach to his arguments. Instead I got the impression he had an axe to grind. As I said... not really a good book to read to give comfort or to inspire.
The Bible contains many
The Bible contains many stories with many characters. There are stories of a historical nature and stories that are parables. God, as a person is seen working in the lives of real people. Good triumphs evil.
People love stories because they can put themselves in the shoes of the characters.
The atheists don't have any stories to tell. All they have are arguments. And when you read arguments all you can think of is .. 'hmm, this guy sounds smarter than me!'
Do people really want to be reminded of that? Even diehard atheists can only tolerate a certain amount of argumentation before yawning and switching on the tv to watch .. a story!
from:
from: janejosefson@yahoo.com to: average joe
very simple measures:
(1) will the atheists pony up the money and how much compared to the Gideons, per year, to match the Bible book by book?
(2) will dawkins, hitchens, and the rest of the new 'aggressive' atheists donate all profits from their books (God Delusion et. al.) to the cause?
(3) assuming hotels allow the atheist books equal 'in the drawer' shelf space, will the atheist books be stolen like the Gideon Bibles sometimes are (people assume they're there for the taking, by the way) because people just can't put them down and can't wait to finish them?
I think it would depend on
I think it would depend on the level of understanding of the hotel guest. Most Christians haven't even read the Bible, so to ask them to read both the Bible and Dawkins's book I think Dawkins would win hands down among people who have not thought seriously about the faith of their upbringing. If you know who I am then there is another wave of atheists coming on his heels which will not be as easily dealt with. I would place my book next to any apologetics book of your recommendation and ask the uneducated person of faith to read them both as a test to see which one is more convincing. It would be sort of like Burger King's virgin testing of people who eat a Whopper and a Big Mac to see what they think is best. My bet is that if this were the test that apologetics book would not fare very well at all. But's that's just me. ;-)
Cheers.
One book offers salvation,
One book offers salvation, or in the least - comfort. The other book offers a vitriolic diatribe against the subject of the first. Science armed with a foul disposition tends not to be scientific - only spiteful. The existence of God, at the very least, cannot be disproved. In all practicality, there is far more proof in favor of "God" than proof against "God". I personally find the 'proof' against God to be rather flimsy and it usually requires the same pious attitude to believe that the religious are ostracized for having.
I have just finished reading
I have just finished reading Anthony Flew's most recent book, THERE IS A GOD, and am impressed by the intellectual and moral integrity of this philosopher, who though a staunch atheist for 50 years, after following the scientific evidence from both the hard and soft sciences, has come to believe there is a rational, omnipotent, omniscient, spiritual Being who is the sole ground for the existence and maintanence of the universe as we now know it. And contrary to slanderous rumors some have spread about "an old man's fear of death," Dr. Flew makes it clear that it was his rational analysis of the evidence underlying five issues, which Dawkins and company admittedly avoid, which led him to change his mind about God: the rational accessibility of the universe and the laws governing it; the incredibility of life going live by random, unguided chance; the origin of rational consciousness in a supposedly irrational, unconscious universe; and the origin of the human self that while conscious of thought processes going on in the brain, is yet distinct from and analytically critical of those processes. He says that essentially, he is being true to a committment he made as a philosopher long ago: To follow the path that reason and the facts demand, wherever they lead. And he has been interacting with N.T. Wright, and is giving a fresh consideration to the revelational claims of Christianity, though he is far from being convinced. So I would, for those interested in truth, suggest that after reading Dawkins, they now read Flew, and then read the Bible. And here is a verse that every seeker of truth should take to heart: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him" (Heb. 11:6, TNIV).
I think the real issue is
I think the real issue is autonomy, not "truth."
If you've seen Ben Stein's interview of Dawkins in the movie, "Expelled," you'd know that even the great denier himself fudges on the God factor.
We all KNOW there's some sort of Ultimate Originator.
What matters is whether we owe that entity allegiance, and the whole point of "atheism" is pure autonomy: to owe no entity outside of oneself any sort of allegiance, and your fellows only so much as you must grudgingly give in order to be allowed what autonomy you perceive you have.
That's why they're trying to get rid of the Gideon Bible in hotel rooms. No guilt when ordering that booze and porn.
Human beings really are simple at bottom. That's why the serpent was so successful in the Garden.
"It's me or You, and I vote me."
For too many people, it's an irrevocable vote, and will only be regretted when crossing death's threshold and finally coming face-to-face with that Entity they've been trying so diligently to deny.
May God grant more of us success in reaching these poor muddled wretches for Him before it's too late. Yet, that's really the point, isn't it? They refuse to be reached, and Dawkins, et al., provides some cover and "comfort" to gamble with. They KNOW the Bible doesn't for them! For them, there's only fear and an accounting they gambled on escaping.
Well, first of all, we
Well, first of all, we should point out that, unless you're a fundamentalist Christian who has the same view of religion that Osama bin Laden does, you know that there is no conflict between Christianity and Darwin's theory of evolution. Darwin, fact, had studied to be a priest (or pastor or whatever), and continued to be a Christian after publishing The Origin of Species. If you guys see a conflict, you are reading the Bible WAY too literally.
Having said that, it is clear that the people placing the book by Dawkins -- an extremist atheist who thinks there is something inherently irrational and/or evil about religion -- see a conflict between religion and science, and resolve the conflict in the opposite way. They, too, are wrong.
I myself am a Deist; I believe in a Deity -- God, if you will -- which is responsible for the existence of the universe, but does not intervene in its operation or in the affairs of mankind (obviously, that means I believe in both God and evolution). Hence, I see the Bible as a great work of literature and nothing more.
I have to agree with marc m; if someone is in a hotel room contemplating suicide, it is clear that the Bible would provide more comfort. NOT because there is a conflict between science and moderate religion, but because moderate religion is designed, in part, to provide comfort, whereas science is merely the practice of studying the material universe.
In fact, if one buys into Richard Dawkins' view of the world, it might make suicidal feelings worse by making them feel alone.
So I say, just leave the Bible!!!!!
THE TEST WOULD COME WHEN THE
THE TEST WOULD COME WHEN THE HOTEL WAS BURNING AND THERE WAS NO WAY OUT. WHICH TOME DO YOU THINK WOULD HOLD MORE POWER? IF IT HAPPENED TO ME I WOULD HOPE I WAS THERE IN THE PERIOD WHEN THE BIBLE WAS THERE. I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE.
i think putting atheist
i think putting atheist tracts in hotel rooms will have no effect whatsoever because no matter how truthful atheism might be, its weakest selling point is that it is quite boring. a lot of atheism is about taking responsibility for yourself and that is something suicidal troubled persons definitely don't want to discover because it is quite bleak. as long as there is porn and videogames on order on the hotel tv, atheism doesn't stand a chance of being read. The bible, on the other hand is a source of spiritual salvation for troubled persons for solid cultural reasons. I am sure that the placement of bibles in hotel rooms will have a lasting effect for some without regard to the truth of its inherent ideas.